The Transcript

00:00:00:01 – 00:00:21:20
Michael Cardoso
With the astronomical rise of video platforms like Tik-Tok and many other platforms making a clear shift to focusing more on video, we’ve seen along with that, a big rise in companies and business owners becoming video content creators. My name is Michael Cardoso and I’m the digital content producer here at NVISION. So I do all the video and photo and multimedia content for our social channels.

00:00:22:03 – 00:00:38:07
Michael Cardoso
And I’m joined today by seasoned business owner and captain of the ship here. George, thank you for joining me as well as Sylvia are always on top of things and very talented director of digital marketing. Thank you both for being here today. Appreciate you taking the time for this chat.

00:00:38:20 – 00:00:39:17
George Arabian
Thank you for having us.

00:00:39:22 – 00:00:48:21
Michael Cardoso
Awesome. So I wanted to start off by opening up the conversation on your experience with business oriented content.

00:00:48:21 – 00:01:32:23
George Arabian
I think that business oriented content is generally very driven to captivate audiences, to buy products or services, which I find very boring. Like it’s very intentionally based on like, here’s my product, buy it, here’s my service this why I’m great and that’s all fine and dandy. And I think where I like to play and you know, through the fortune I have of having both of you in my life, is aligning kind of my values and the purpose of why I’m doing what I do, which is really not necessarily talking about the services we have to offer or that the organization has to offer.

00:01:33:06 – 00:02:00:08
George Arabian
We’re so overwhelmed by just shit in the market right now about buy, buy, buy, buy, buy as opposed to asking why, why, why, why, why? And that’s where I like to just really hone in and align my messaging. So that’s kind of my take is it’s slightly a different angle on what we have to offer here and why it’s great to work with us not because of our services, but because we give a shit about the people and all that kind of good stuff here.

00:02:00:14 – 00:02:09:20
Michael Cardoso
That’s awesome I love that approach. I’m curious as a viewer, what kind of content do you get the most value out of when you’re just watching other people?

00:02:09:20 – 00:02:44:10
George Arabian
I like, I love informative content about how people deal with people situations, because every one of us is different, any one, every one of us comes from a unique set of values, upbringings, perspectives. And I love hearing those viewpoints and then aligning those with how I would interpret that message and how then I would disseminate that to the group here and then ultimately to the client.

00:02:45:11 – 00:03:00:15
George Arabian
So I don’t I don’t know. Everybody comes at it with a unique angle, and I’d like to just interpret that and research it to appreciate how that can impact my life and my positioning on a certain topic or subject matter.

00:03:00:20 – 00:03:05:13
Michael Cardoso
Okay, interesting. Syl what’s been your experience? What kind of content do you take in?

00:03:06:14 – 00:03:30:21
Sylvia Wong
As a content consumer, like, I consider myself like a voracious consumer. Like, I just I love to consume content in all forms. I think that when it comes to business or professional content, it’s so dominated by white men, frankly. Like if you’re looking at business books, anything traditional, it’s just like very geared towards a very particular, like privileged message.

00:03:31:04 – 00:03:58:14
Sylvia Wong
So personally, I consider myself to be a victim of girlboss content. In that like five plus years ago, there was a huge amount of like Girlboss style content, which is just people who are relatable to you. Like you can see, like women of color actually, you know, achieving and accomplishing in the business world. And I think in, in my own awareness of social issues and stuff, I’m kind of like past that.

00:03:58:14 – 00:04:31:07
Sylvia Wong
I think like I’m a more aware of things that are in the realm of new topics around the world of work. So I love to consume content that is very relevant to how the world has changed to adapt to work and how work is kind of being forced to change and adapt around what people want from it. So I love content right now around like, great resignation stuff like working, LARPing your job type content, things that are about really, what are what are the new things act, acting, your wage and and stuff.

00:04:31:11 – 00:04:56:17
Sylvia Wong
So I really find value around work content that is not just about if you work hard, you make it in like the hustle culture type things, but things that are aware of privilege, placement and people who I can relate to. So I find value in like, relatability and kind of get value out of things that are just like very aware of what’s going on in the world right now rather than being a little bit out of touch.

00:04:56:17 – 00:05:20:07
Sylvia Wong
So I’d say content consumption wise, I’m very interested in that type of content and where I consume most of my content is TikTok. And you guys know this, and like I jokingly say, I spend 10 hours a day on it, but it’s probably 8 hours. So like it’s tons of time. But like, I love to consume like business type content, not on LinkedIn.

00:05:20:08 – 00:05:38:10
Sylvia Wong
Like as a consumer, it gives me the ick. Like, I just hate it. It’s like, so repellent to me. And I know you are like a fan of LinkedIn because it’s great for business. It is really great. But I like to find my like content in this like realer, more like raw format almost where it’s like less edited and kind of like people speaking off the cuff.

00:05:38:10 – 00:05:42:07
Sylvia Wong
So that’s my consumption and like what I’m more attracted to.

00:05:42:14 – 00:06:04:23
Michael Cardoso
There’s definitely been a significant shift in what’s offered content wise, and it’s cool to see the people responding to that and the businesses are being forced to react as well. George, I’m curious, since you’ve been starting to make content, it’s been, I think, two-ish years now of you being actually in front of the camera, making points, delivering messages.

00:06:06:10 – 00:06:25:06
Michael Cardoso
But I know that. Syl you have been encouraging him for longer than that to put your face in front of the camera there, video, photography, whatever, but just to not be afraid to put yourself out there. I’m curious what held you back for so long from getting into it? And what was the thing that actually prompted you to make it happen?

00:06:25:16 – 00:06:47:22
George Arabian
I guess what held me back from doing it was fear, I would say it was probably the most notable. You know, you never know what kind of responses you’re going to get. You see all the pollution that exists in social and you’re fearful of that same polluted, toxic kind of feedback coming back to the material you ultimately want to put out.

00:06:48:08 – 00:07:13:09
George Arabian
So I would say fear was probably a big thing. Also, there is something to be said about not knowing who you are, really. And I see that with respect to, you know, truthfully, I, I, I’m quite confident that I have a lot of introverted tendencies about me. And as much as that seems hard to believe, I still feel something.

00:07:13:09 – 00:07:44:21
George Arabian
There’s something to be said about, you know, certain things to be kept to yourself. There’s a shyness to me that a lot of people don’t know about. But, you know, I had to overcome those barriers because I also knew that if I was going to make a go at this agency and, you know, see it through to success for the betterness of everyone here, I also had things that I wanted to share, whether they be in the world of business or marketing.

00:07:46:17 – 00:08:18:21
George Arabian
The only way I felt I can get that was through video. And so, you know, for the past four or five years, there’s been a lot of experimentation. Good, bad, and ugly, and a lot every one of those moments have been learning experiences. So I got into it with no ulterior motive other than to help myself get out of my introverted, kind of secluded, shy ways and to put myself out there a little bit more and see what that felt like.

00:08:18:21 – 00:08:47:14
George Arabian
And truthfully, I enjoyed it like it was. Like it was great to get feedback. It’s great when I’m out in the community and people are talking about the videos and how it’s helped them get through something, whether it be business or personal. So that in and of itself has been gratifying for me. So started off as a I’m not sure if this is for me and then ended up becoming like, I think I can get through this and get better at it.

00:08:47:20 – 00:09:10:04
Michael Cardoso
Mm hmm. When I joined the agency just over two years ago now, you were just at the beginning of getting into it. I think the first project I had, or like a little test run of a project was you had filmed something at home. This is like during like peak pandemic times and you had sent me a bunch of footage and some assets and you said, “Can you like cut this together into a video?”

00:09:10:11 – 00:09:34:05
Michael Cardoso
And it’s been so cool to see over the now two years how you’ve transformed from that like shy just trying to figure it out kind of personality to now I think you’re starting to really develop your video persona and I don’t say that to say that you’re any different in in real life, but you just you come across like, you know, what you’re talking about and with confidence.

00:09:34:05 – 00:09:42:02
Michael Cardoso
And I think it’s been cool to see that develop over time. No truly, it takes time and it’s not easy to get over that hurdle.

00:09:42:06 – 00:10:01:00
Sylvia Wong
I think like one of the the hurdles though too was when I was saying, like all those years ago, we just need you to, like I said, like go live. And you’re like, no, not live. Like I would never go live. It was like going to be pre recorded. It was you and like your camera in like whatever room in here in your house and you would record it.

00:10:01:07 – 00:10:17:10
Sylvia Wong
But I remember like your discomfort with doing it and like it was coming across on film. And I think like for you, that barrier almost was like, I think it needs to be more professionally done. And at that time and at this time too, I’m like, it never needs to be like people are not looking at the quality of it.

00:10:17:10 – 00:10:26:03
Sylvia Wong
They’re looking at like the value you’re giving and like what you’re saying. But it, it had to get there through means of like professional production at first.

00:10:27:07 – 00:10:50:17
George Arabian
Yeah, I think that was part of it for sure. I think it also is a byproduct of being surrounded by people who encourage you as opposed to demean you for things you may not know or how to conduct yourself in a certain scenarios, you guys are like okay here’s things that you should consider or hey, like, what did you mean by this?

00:10:50:17 – 00:11:22:15
George Arabian
So I think that collaborative dialog has helped really support me in that encouragement and that and I think that’s what’s really needed.I think it’s hard to put into words how valuable good people are for you to get over certain humps and barriers in life. And I think when you’re as fortunate as I am to have folks like you around me, it’s it’s great, man.

00:11:22:15 – 00:11:33:20
George Arabian
I’m like, Yeah, I fucked up. Yeah, I said something weird or what the fuck did you mean by the time it’s like, hey, next time try this, and it’s like, okay, you know, noted.

00:11:34:14 – 00:12:03:10
Michael Cardoso
I think a lot of the like the fear and the challenges around that have to do with the fact that a lot of a lot of content creators, especially in the current generation, grew up from a young age making videos with their friends or stuff that wasn’t to be taken seriously. And they made those mistakes before it was important. Having those stakes of being like now I’m talking to an audience of people that I’m trying to potentially sell services to in the future or build connections, professional connections with.

00:12:03:10 – 00:12:13:01
Michael Cardoso
I think a lot of the fear must come from that. Like, you’re jumping, you’re jumping into the deep end. You’re not getting to learn how to swim first. You’re just you’ve been thrown in.

00:12:13:01 – 00:12:35:01
George Arabian
Yeah. And I’ll give you a like, not so much because I’ve kind of articulated like where I come from and my background and my fears of kind of diving into this. I’ll tell you the experiences of the clients I speak to who’ve seen our videos and they’re like, I want to do that and I want to create videos and I give them the same advice as Syl gave me years ago.

00:12:35:01 – 00:13:06:15
George Arabian
And it’s just like, just get in front of the camera, and if you don’t do it, you’re never going to experience what that failure is going to feel like. And truth be told, it doesn’t hurt that bad at all. It really just becomes a learning moment if you allow it to become a learning moment. So, you know, I take many of our clients who digest our videos and give me feedback and then come to us and say, I want to do that.

00:13:06:15 – 00:13:29:03
George Arabian
And all I say is, okay, you’ve never done it. And this is how I started. I picked up my iPhone or Samsung or whatever pixel device, and they just recorded my first video and I didn’t critique it hard, but I had those around me give me feedback and then I refined it the second time and then the third time and then the 100th time.

00:13:29:10 – 00:13:38:23
George Arabian
And now we’re on the 500th time and we’re still critiquing and course correcting and refining. And so it’s like you just got to dive in.

00:13:39:18 – 00:14:04:06
Sylvia Wong
I think like realistically too for a lot of business owners, like even with our clients, with huge businesses, their own personal following, it might yield them 100 or 200 views. And that 100 or 200 views is not to some peanut gallery. It’s mostly people they know. And there’s no reason that people that, you know, would be condescending towards that, that they would have negative comments.

00:14:04:06 – 00:14:24:13
Sylvia Wong
For the most part, they’re so encouraging. And from what we found from all of our social data like for NVISIONS, is that any time that people see, particularly your face George, or anyone in the agency, it really resonates with them. They just want to see us as people and hear what we have to say and the fear that the whole world is going to see it.

00:14:24:23 – 00:14:42:16
Sylvia Wong
Virality is something that is so sought after and so chased that it is so unlikely that these these little business videos that we’re making are seen by a very large audience. Right. Like we are not making these thinking that like millions and millions of people are going to see them. But that audience gets built over time and consistency.

00:14:43:12 – 00:15:14:16
George Arabian
And truthfully, who gives a shit like if millions of people don’t see it, who gives a shit? If your video can have a positive impact on one person, just one human being, that makes that recording, that opportunity that you took to do that message, create that message, that much more worthwhile. Like to me, that’s all, I don’t even look at the numbers anymore because I don’t care like I used to at the beginning because I thought the same thing.

00:15:14:16 – 00:15:40:06
George Arabian
It was like if I get 25 views on this thing, God, am I a failure? And it’s like, fuck that. Like, I don’t give a shit if two people see it. Great. And I’ve had videos where, you know, thousands of people have seen it. That’s awesome too. But if it helps one person and one person only, that’s that’s all that I care about doesn’t matter to me.

00:15:40:06 – 00:15:41:17
George Arabian
The numbers make no difference.

00:15:41:17 – 00:16:04:09
Michael Cardoso
And truthfully, there is no real formula to growing like substantially. There’s things that you can put in place to give yourself the best chances of growing your audience if that’s your goal, or to get lots of views, they’re shortcuts to it. There’s a whole bunch of things, but there’s no like tried and true method to like consistently gain or grow an audience.

00:16:04:16 – 00:16:30:05
Michael Cardoso
So to fault yourself for not immediately having that big audience, you’re only doing your self harm. So I love that approach of truly, just if I can impact one person, then that’s a net positive. I love that approach. Syl, I was wondering, obviously you brought up before that you had been pushing for George to get in front of the camera for live videos or just any sort of content, outside of the context of this business.

00:16:31:04 – 00:16:38:20
Michael Cardoso
What benefits do you see for businesses who are willing to put in that time, effort and investment into creating content?

00:16:39:04 – 00:17:01:18
Sylvia Wong
The biggest thing in content marketing is like content is king right. And content is such a broad term. It used to be blogs, it was copy, it’s images, it’s whatever. And we see a lot of clients ask us for very specific things, like clients always come to us very tactically minded. So for a long time it was like video.

00:17:01:18 – 00:17:36:19
Sylvia Wong
Can you help us with video. Now like you hear here and there, like a client saying like we need TikToks, right. All of it, bottom line, is still content marketing. And the approach in which you take content marketing is like the main facet of content marketing. You just want to give people value. If you can show that you are giving that target audience, that person that matters to you, that person that is your possible client, your possible employee, your possible whatever it is, who you’re trying to appeal to, if you can give them value, then you are showing them that you are giving generously.

00:17:36:19 – 00:17:46:00
Sylvia Wong
There’s so many frameworks out there about like give, give, get, or like punch, punch, right hook or whatever it is. So I’m like, I don’t know, you know what I mean?

00:17:47:11 – 00:17:47:16
George Arabian
Right.

00:17:47:17 – 00:18:03:07
Sylvia Wong
Okay. I don’t know. There’s like a lot of different frameworks around like how much you have to give or like you have to give like three things before people are going to be like in your funnel and give you something back which is like be a lead to you, right. The benefit is you are making yourself top of mind.

00:18:03:09 – 00:18:23:11
Sylvia Wong
You’re making yourself the thought leader in your particular industry. And when people are thinking of a very specific thing, whatever industry that you’re in, you might be seeing all of your competitors and constantly thinking, oh my God, my market is saturated, it is completely saturated. There’s so many of us, I can’t even believe that it’s grown at this rate.

00:18:23:11 – 00:18:48:02
Sylvia Wong
I can’t even believe there’s a million of us on every single blog. But the thing is, in any average consumer’s mind, anyone that maybe follows you, you’re going to be the only digital marketer that you know. You’re going to be the only person they know that does something very particular. Because what you do is so specific that that top of mind means they’re going to reach out to you first to maybe not even say, I need you to work for me, but say, do you know anyone that can help me with X, right?

00:18:48:08 – 00:19:13:09
Sylvia Wong
And that value is like something that with content marketing, it doesn’t feel like you get leads instantly. But that top of mind, that brand awareness and that value that you built over years and years and years can pan out to amazing things. But it could happen a year or two or three down the line. So it’s, it’s brand building and that’s that’s frankly what content marketing and speaking and being a founder centric business is.

00:19:13:17 – 00:19:33:04
Michael Cardoso
Absolutely. Is there ever,sSo obviously, that’s why it’s positive. Is there ever a time where somebody will say, I need you to or I want you guys to produce video for us? Or content even outside of the scope of video. But specifically with content marketing, where it doesn’t make sense to put an investment in. Or do you think it’s valuable for every business?

00:19:34:19 – 00:19:57:20
Sylvia Wong
It usually doesn’t make sense if you have no sense of what your brand is or your values. Like if there’s no framework of values and something that really like ties it all together where there’s like a soul to your business and what you’re saying, people can see through it because then all you’re focusing on is sales. So when people say, I want videos and I want it to be a commercial, I want it to be an advertisement.

00:19:57:20 – 00:20:16:03
Sylvia Wong
Of course you can put ad funding behind it right, you can do media buy. Yes, it’ll look great on your site. Yes, it’s a great sales piece and maybe it highlights your product and all of that. That is different than like ongoing video that you create. Because obviously I’m not talking down on our own services. We make these for our clients all the time.

00:20:16:19 – 00:20:43:21
Sylvia Wong
A sales piece is completely different than creating content on a regular basis with a goal of being a thought leader. Because as a founder, you are trying to attract like your clients, you are trying to attract your staff, you are, you are putting your values out there. And if you lack that and your sole purpose is sales, then I do think it comes off like much, much emptier and much more.

00:20:44:02 – 00:20:48:21
Sylvia Wong
You know, people see through things. Give people more credit than that, right? Like they’ll know it’s a sale.

00:20:48:21 – 00:21:11:18
George Arabian
It’s soulless, right? There’s no authenticity to the message. And I think that’s kind of the integral part of really building your brand is staying true to who you are and being authentic and not trying to, you know, sway somebody to buy or sell or do something that, you know, you yourself may not feel truly invested in.

00:21:11:18 – 00:21:34:03
George Arabian
Right. And I see this every single day with organizations, you know, I’ve got you know, you’ve got a huge following on Instagram. I’ve got my following on LinkedIn. And every single day I get people who are pitching me. I’ve never met them in my life. I’ve never seen a single piece of their content and they’re trying to sell me on a product or service.

00:21:34:03 – 00:21:44:08
George Arabian
I’m like, who are you? Like, What? What are you? Is it just bottom line for you? Like, Do you want to get to know me? Why would I ever invest in you? I have no idea who you are.

00:21:44:20 – 00:21:45:19
Sylvia Wong
No one likes a hard sell.

00:21:45:21 – 00:22:26:17
George Arabian
No one likes it. I mean, it’s like you’re shoving something down my throat that I don’t want it, and then you’re persistent in doing so. And now you’ve pissed me off. Now I don’t want to talk to you at all ever again. Right? So, so there’s no authenticity in that. There’s no real, genuine connection. And I think there’s something beautiful about community in connection with other humans that you’ve built some trust with, regardless of if you’ve ever met them or you’ve just consumed their content and you feel genuinely invested in their content because they’re putting out good material that resonates with you, not just the hard buy, buy, buy, buy, buy.

00:22:26:21 – 00:22:27:06
George Arabian
It’s like. Thanks.

00:22:27:17 – 00:22:52:04
Michael Cardoso
That’s not what they’re coming to those platforms for, right, that you’re used to seeing on TV, well now we’re onto streaming. But like when cable and satellite was more of a popular thing, you’re used to being sold stuff and seeing ads the time. When you go on Instagram or TikTok, the last thing I want to see is somebody trying to like give a hard sell for something it’s like I’m coming here to turn off from that.

00:22:52:08 – 00:23:02:00
Michael Cardoso
So if you can present something that’s more digestible, something personal, something valuable to me, and something that shows off your values as a content creator, that’s going to be way more impactful.

00:23:02:00 – 00:23:21:10
Sylvia Wong
I think that’s like what you’re touching on there is huge because it’s the difference between traditional advertising and what digital marketing is. And I think if people, some people have been in business for a long time and they think that you can just take your applicable principles that you’ve used for newspaper, print, TV advertisements and just move them to social.

00:23:21:18 – 00:23:35:05
Sylvia Wong
But those platforms, social, they’re made to be social. So no one has that expectation that they’re going to have, you know, when I’m watching like sports streaming now and you see old school commercials, I’m like, oh my God, they’re so loud and aggressive. Like, it’s.

00:23:35:05 – 00:23:36:04
Michael Cardoso
Literally louder as well.

00:23:36:04 – 00:23:43:10
Sylvia Wong
So aggressive, really like in-your-face with the messaging. And I’m like, I’m so not accustomed to it in any other part of my life.

00:23:44:02 – 00:24:03:03
Michael Cardoso
So we’ve talked about some of the benefits and challenges that come along with producing video content. But I’m curious from your perspective as a business owner here at NVISION, what are some of the benefits you’ve seen outside of the numbers and outside the financial aspects from creating video content?

00:24:03:17 – 00:24:40:13
George Arabian
Benefit number one for me has been just my ability to shy away from my own insecurities of being on camera. You know, as somebody who is in the digital marketing space and sells this for a living like this service, I think it was important for me to, you know, walk the walk, if you will. So I think that in and of itself has been a great learning experience to not only understand how this world works and operates, because it’s something I’ve been so fond of for years and years.

00:24:41:12 – 00:25:08:15
George Arabian
So having a small sample size and learning from you on how this world works has been great and kind of getting over my own insecurities of being in front of the camera. But then also being able to help others appreciate how they can, you know, break away from their own challenges of being in front of a camera and kind of coach them through the experiences I’ve had, has been amazing.

00:25:08:15 – 00:25:37:03
George Arabian
I mean, I know that indirectly doing these videos has had an impact on our growth and our visibility and the awareness it’s brought to our communities, which is amazing. But I really look at it like it was a tool for me to explore and immerse myself in that’s helped me and now it’s helping other clients of ours. And it’s a lot of fun, man.

00:25:37:03 – 00:25:59:02
George Arabian
Like, it’s, it’s been amazing to just see all of these toys and explore these trillion microphones that we’ve bought and camera equipment and lighting that’s sitting all above us here. It’s so neat. I love this world and I think that’s been the biggest gratification for me now.

00:25:59:02 – 00:26:05:15
Michael Cardoso
I absolutely love working on this stuff. It’s cool to hear that from the person being in front of the camera as well that that part of it’s fun too.

00:26:05:18 – 00:26:21:18
Sylvia Wong
I feel like it’s rekindled a lot of your loose connections too, though, right? You’ve been put on the radar of people that you’ve been in touch with for years and you’re like, oh my God, we haven’t talked for so long. But they’ve kind of seen that. I’m just talking about things and they reach out.

00:26:22:03 – 00:26:45:23
George Arabian
Yeah, I think that was like the byproduct of just doing this. And that in and of itself has been amazing to be able to resurrect a relationship that’s kind of like been on dormant for so long. And yeah, the videos have been like that icebreaker that they’ve seen me or seen a video that we’ve done that wasn’t the original intention.

00:26:45:23 – 00:27:21:08
George Arabian
It was really something that I felt was really a key piece that we were missing in the agency that could really help support us creating more immersive opportunities for our clients. But then it quickly became like this, oh fuck moment. Or like, we’ve got Michael here, we’ve got all this equipment, and it’s like, I got to put this to use and I’m here and it’s the pandemic, and we’re not doing a lot of videos because we’re not getting hired because there’s a lot of organizations that are closed or working remote.

00:27:21:08 – 00:27:37:22
George Arabian
So we might as well make use of all this good stuff and let’s roll with it and see where it goes. And here we are today, right. Two years in the making. But yeah, like rekindling a lot of these relationships has been one of my favorite things for sure.

00:27:38:17 – 00:27:51:22
Michael Cardoso
You, you brought up the fact that it’s helped you to like get over or overcome some of the shyness that you’ve, you’ve had in the past. Were there any tactics that you employed to help you get to that point? Or do you think it’s just something that happened over time, the more you did it?

00:27:53:07 – 00:28:08:08
George Arabian
Good question. I don’t think that I put a lot of thought into it other than just to throw myself into it. You just do it. You just got it to give it a go. And I think the one thing that got lost on me a few years back was like, nothing’s getting out until it’s production perfect.

00:28:09:06 – 00:28:31:15
George Arabian
And then it was like, okay, like, I’m not getting anywhere with this. I need to, we need progress. And through the progress, if it’s imperfect, no problem. What do I learn from it and how do we continue to refine and better and not to say that there will ever be a perfect and I hope there never is, because once something’s perfect and there’s not nowhere else to go with it, it’s perfect.

00:28:32:05 – 00:28:35:06
George Arabian
So I hope to continually learn and adapt.

00:28:38:02 – 00:28:38:22
George Arabian
That’s it, man.

00:28:39:06 – 00:28:50:17
Michael Cardoso
Yeah. So, like, having that foundation of understanding your values and who you are as a business owner and as a person combined with being okay with it’s not going to be perfect.

00:28:50:22 – 00:29:20:14
George Arabian
Yeah. And I think that’s got to be okay for everyone to explore and experiment and like, you know, and I think we try to insinuate that and kind of communicate that to our clients too. Like, you know, marketing is a giant hypothesis and we do our best to do all the research and due diligence. But there’s no black and white or guideline to say here do these things and your outcomes will be X.

00:29:21:03 – 00:29:44:01
George Arabian
It doesn’t work that way. And if you don’t do exploration and yes, we’re not doing this brews and buzzwords based on just some false notion or some, you know, pie in the sky ideas like we thought about this and planned this out so that we could do it well. But I don’t know if two people watch this or 200 or 2000 or 200,000, we don’t know.

00:29:44:01 – 00:29:55:04
George Arabian
But that’s okay. It doesn’t matter because we’re putting our thoughts out there as leaders in our space and hopefully it resonates. And again if it helps that one person, that’s all that matters to me.

00:29:55:18 – 00:30:16:13
Michael Cardoso
I love that. We talked about making mistakes and being okay with making mistakes as a content creator. But Syl I’m curious from your perspective, from more of a strategic point of view, are there any pitfalls that you really do want to avoid when you’re getting into content creation? And how do you mitigate those?

00:30:17:19 – 00:30:46:09
Sylvia Wong
I think for the most part, like on social channels and stuff, what’s expected is sometimes going to be technical errors. You can get weird things with like mistakes in something that’s dated, wrong captions, like just little things like that and I think people are fairly forgiving of those things because of how ephemeral social media is, how quickly things move and how, you know, ofof this one video that maybe took you so long to put together and present, it’s like one of 200 things that people have looked at that day, so they’re not really going to think that much about it.

00:30:46:17 – 00:31:10:18
Sylvia Wong
I think the big mistakes that we never want to tread into or make are getting into anything and saying anything wrong that is going to get you in legal trouble. Anything that’s like, you know, a political opinion that is not aligned with your business. So when you tread into those areas, I, I really stand by having core values that are stances that you are taking and that you are firm in that are never changing.

00:31:11:01 – 00:31:41:10
Sylvia Wong
Now, all of that said, if there is anything that gives you backlash, it doesn’t automatically mean that you did the wrong thing and that you delete it. I don’t think doubling down is the right way of going about things either. But if there is ever a correction that’s given to you, like take consideration, talk to the people around you, see if like you did make a mistake and if it’s something that warrants like an apology or a fix or a change or deletion or something, but the fact that you’re willing to try and make a change is all that the Internet asks of people, right?

00:31:41:10 – 00:32:14:01
Michael Cardoso
Mm hmm. Totally. I think a lot of people get very scared of whatever you want to call it, like cancel culture or whatever, people get scared. Oh, what if I say the wrong thing and everyone’s going to be after me and I’m going to lose everything? But truthfully, I do believe that most audiences are forgiving, if you are willing to admit that you, like, made a mistake and take corrective action or do your best to educate yourself and do better next time, yeah, nobody’s going to hold.

00:32:14:01 – 00:32:39:01
Michael Cardoso
Like, unless you did something that’s directly harming a lot of people, you’re not going to, like, be shunned off the Internet forever right? So being willing to make mistakes, but being willing to take accountability for that. I’m curious more on the technical side. We’ve talked about things not needing to be perfect, then finding sort of a balance between effort and output.

00:32:39:17 – 00:32:44:09
Michael Cardoso
Do you have any tips for businesses that are getting into content creation to help find that balance?

00:32:44:23 – 00:33:04:09
Sylvia Wong
Yeah, I think like the funniest thing is like I know you’re on TikTok, you were there for a bit and you’re like, this is a lot. But the things that perform best are the most like accidentally recorded things. The things that like somebody is just like literally sitting on a toilet and talking, you know, like, it’s just like it’s honestly the lowest effort.

00:33:04:09 – 00:33:20:23
Sylvia Wong
Things sometimes are so real and you feel the authenticity in somebody just like needing to say it so quickly that like, that works. So that’s all the way on the side of like zero absolute no effort. Here where we got like I’m looking at like four cameras, microphones, lighting and everything here. Obviously, it’s a lot of effort.

00:33:21:07 – 00:33:41:01
Sylvia Wong
The balance between those two is like if you’re just starting and you want to find your voice, go the TikTok route, right? Go the stories route, stories literally disappear in 24 hours. You can infinitely test, you can infinitely see what resonates in there and see like who is DM-ing you based on stuff and who is actually like watching it.

00:33:41:15 – 00:34:02:00
Sylvia Wong
The algorithm will play itself out too, some stories are going to get more views than other ones. And it’s just because it’s getting shown to more people in your audience. So if you are just getting started, you’re just finding your voice, you’re just figuring out like, is it even worth investing? Then just start putting yourself in your face and your thoughts out there and see which of the ideas are the ones that resonate with people.

00:34:02:21 – 00:34:21:07
Sylvia Wong
This level of production stuff, if you really have no idea where your values are and everything, and like, obviously as an agency, we can help you develop your values, your brand guidelines, your, you know, your mission, vision and your core values, your UVP, so you really understand what it is that you are constantly referring to and talking about.

00:34:21:15 – 00:34:39:19
Sylvia Wong
But, is it worth investing yet if you don’t have those things ironed out? I don’t know. It’s like those things can go hand in hand. Right. I feel like some of your personal values got ironed out in the fact that you were out putting things and seeing like our feedback, which was we’re looking at the LinkedIn Analytics and seeing which of your posts were resonating.

00:34:40:02 – 00:35:02:13
Sylvia Wong
Right? And it’s like it’s, it’s not that we’re changing your values based on what resonates. It’s just like how is it that you’re framing your values that is like really ringing true for people and that, you know, the effort? How high does it have to be? It’s up to you. There’s like a full, full scale production. You can literally just, everyone has a super powered smartphone in their pocket.

00:35:02:13 – 00:35:05:00
Sylvia Wong
Like you can very easily start posting right away.

00:35:05:20 – 00:35:27:00
George Arabian
But it goes back to like it goes back to like, what are your values? What do you stand for? Because you can produce all the content you want in the world. But if it’s just all over the place and doesn’t align with what you’re trying to articulate, you really have to sit there for a moment and say to yourself, like, What am I trying to achieve here?

00:35:27:00 – 00:35:49:16
George Arabian
What do we stand for? Especially for organizations that, you know, may have started much like we did, you know, with an entrepreneur with this desire to get this web thing going and then, you know, you sit there and you build these products and you’re sitting there and trying to, you know, land the next gig and make more money and bring in the right people.

00:35:49:16 – 00:36:22:04
George Arabian
And then you say okay. This cycle can last forever. But what are we truly doing here? What is the whole purpose of why we’re doing this and having a moment to sit down and it’s not even just a single moment. It could be months of moments of thinking about this, which is so integral, will help you really appreciate everything else that comes after all the material that you’re going to produce after that aligns with these core set of rules that you’ve applied to yourself and that you stand by.

00:36:22:16 – 00:36:50:14
George Arabian
Right. And I think that’s something that a lot of organizations flaw. They don’t sit there and actually think about it, like we had exercises and dialog and, you know, encouraging conversations and discouraging ones. It’s like, when is this going to end? When am I going to actually know this answer? And it’s not easy, right? It’s something that takes work, but anything good in life takes work.

00:36:51:05 – 00:37:13:15
George Arabian
And I’m, you know, I’m glad we are where we are today because of those core set of values that we’ve helped define and the subset of values too that kind of look up to those values as our guiding light, right? So that help us produce this stuff. All this is a byproduct of knowing who you are and what you stand for, and it’s always evolving.

00:37:14:00 – 00:37:37:08
Michael Cardoso
And then and then from a practical standpoint, once you have done the work to define those values and you put in the investment of time and energy to go that extra step and produce higher quality content like you mentioned, we have four cameras, a million mikes here. Then you can leverage that and create more out of it and create more value for different audiences.

00:37:37:08 – 00:37:59:10
Michael Cardoso
And you can make adjustments and reframe the way that videos come out and reformat things. And like for example, this brews and buzzwords. All of these videos, we never just make the one video, because the reality is most people aren’t going to sit down and listen to a 20 to 60 minute conversation about something unless they’re really, really into it.

00:37:59:10 – 00:38:36:18
Michael Cardoso
But, for sure, there’s going to be moments in this and there have been in past conversations where we go, oh, that’s a great nugget of information. And then that little piece that was just one part of a bigger conversation, becomes a really easily digestible segment that can be put on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, wherever. So once you have done the the work and the due diligence to define those values and get to a point where you can have conversations and tell these sorts of stories, then you can totally leverage that and get more out of it than you would if you just jumped straight into it, going right off the bat into full quality production

00:38:36:18 – 00:38:38:10
Michael Cardoso
before you know who you are.

00:38:38:19 – 00:38:57:04
Sylvia Wong
Yeah, on that point, I think a lot of humans are always on to like the next shiny thing. And as business owners, you often think, okay, this is our big shiny thing. I’m really excited to release it, it has to be released by this time and has to be out. Once it’s out, it’s in the world.

00:38:58:01 – 00:39:20:05
Sylvia Wong
It’s done, right. And that’s exactly like the point that you’re making. Michael, that you can pick out little pieces out of every piece of content and repurpose it, reframe it, format it differently for different channels, and continue to use it. Because content marketing is not about like having to create this endless cycle of content, it’s about actually leveraging what you have.

00:39:20:05 – 00:39:41:01
Sylvia Wong
Because if you’ve said stuff that really is like a total gem and completely aligned, you should be using it infinitely and you should be repurposing it in as many ways as possible. And I think that’s hard for businesses that haven’t done a lot of consistent content marketing when they see a repeated message and they’re like, why are we reposting this again so soon?

00:39:41:07 – 00:39:51:00
Sylvia Wong
It’s like, You know what? Only 10% of your audience sees this because the algorithms on social. So of course we have to repost it to get this out there, repeat ourselves.

00:39:51:13 – 00:40:17:14
Michael Cardoso
Absolutely. And in terms of the repetition as well, first of all, obviously, we’ve mentioned before, people are going to forget about it. I know this is now from the world of traditional, traditional marketing, but it connects. I think I’m forgetting the exact number, but I’m pretty sure it’s the average person needs to see a communication three times in public before it’s something that like registers with them too much more.

00:40:17:14 – 00:40:35:08
Michael Cardoso
And it becomes, it can become a little bit much. But on social media, the reality is, like you said, people are consuming. I don’t know how many hundreds of individual pieces of content per day. So there is a real opportunity to re communicate and recontextualize things but that have the same underlying message. I think it’s super powerful.

00:40:35:15 – 00:40:49:12
Michael Cardoso
Before we wrap up here, I’m just curious if either of you have any tips or any little tidbits that you’d like to share with people who are considering getting into this for businesses or just for personal reasons?

00:40:49:12 – 00:41:35:02
George Arabian
I mean, I think I’ve said it and I don’t think you have to jump in headfirst, but you have to jump in and experiment if you are truly interested in a certain cause, whether it be, you know, something you believe in to help your business, I think you have to just do it. And I think you have to also not be afraid to take criticism and not be afraid to take advice, because I think if people truly care and care about you and care about your, you know, what your mission is, they’re going to support you.

00:41:35:02 – 00:42:04:14
George Arabian
But you’re going to have your critics out there and your critics have to be your best friends. I think your critics have to be the ones you listen to, to say, okay, what have I learned from this, this feedback and not take it personally. I mean, again, I mean, I’m getting, you know, the sample sizes of feedback I get aren’t the millions and millions of hits that viral videos get, but I don’t care about those.

00:42:04:21 – 00:42:32:11
George Arabian
What I care about is serving my community and those around me and the advice I’ve received is keep it going. And that’s what I want to do and just keep it going. But I would never have gone to that had I not jumped in. And I think that’s what I would say is just go for it. But under the undertone of all that and but before you dive in, just know what you stand for.

00:42:32:11 – 00:42:36:14
George Arabian
Have a set of values defined and then experiment.

00:42:36:19 – 00:42:40:08
Michael Cardoso
Don’t be afraid to dive in, but maybe take some swimming lessons first.

00:42:40:08 – 00:42:42:14
George Arabian
Yes, yes. With the floaties.

00:42:42:14 – 00:42:43:11
Michael Cardoso
Right, right, right.

00:42:43:11 – 00:42:44:15
George Arabian
Yeah. Just in case.

00:42:44:15 – 00:42:48:06
Michael Cardoso
Yeah, I like that. Syl any last notes or tips?

00:42:48:06 – 00:43:06:06
Sylvia Wong
Yes, I am often the person to talk to business owners. I’m like, I’m doing the discovery interviews, I’m getting to know them and their businesses. And 99% of business owners are like, I don’t know about my face being on my about page. I think it’s really narcissistic. It’s not about me. I don’t want to be the feature here.

00:43:06:06 – 00:43:27:23
Sylvia Wong
I don’t want to be the center of attention. I don’t want my face out there. You should put it out there. I think the thing is, people connect to people. And when we’re doing web development, when we’re doing digital marketing, we are looking for faces that people can connect to. And if you don’t have pictures of yourself, the people that work in your business.

00:43:28:04 – 00:43:51:02
Sylvia Wong
If you’re not putting yourself face forward, your brand will have no human element to it. And we see so many websites that come to us prior to us redoing them obviously, there are no faces to be seen. There’s just no real identity or nothing human about it. And it’s just so, so, so, so important to kind of get over that sense of like, it’s, it’s narcissistic for business owners to do that.

00:43:51:02 – 00:44:15:05
Sylvia Wong
I don’t know why everyone thinks that. And it’s so, so common. And so we’re in the place often saying like, please, just trust us. Like it is so strong to have a founder story, a mission, vision, values, and have you on your socials, have your face there, have you talking. And the more past, you know, just like headshots, you actually emoting and talking is so powerful.

00:44:15:10 – 00:44:28:17
Sylvia Wong
So I highly encourage it. If any business owners out there are thinking, you know, it is selfish or narcissistic to put your own photo out there, it’s not, people want to work with you. And when they’re looking for service providers, they’re looking for humans.

00:44:29:03 – 00:44:38:18
Michael Cardoso
And it shows that you’re willing to put your face and your name to your product or service. It’s not just some faceless brand that they mess up. It’s like, who do you point the finger at?

00:44:38:18 – 00:44:45:20
Sylvia Wong
In a digital world with so much sass and a lot of AI and stuff like that, people are just kind of like, Am I working with a real person? So that’s all yeah.

00:44:46:08 – 00:44:58:20
Michael Cardoso
Awesome. Love it. Well, thank you guys so much for taking the time to have this chat. I think it’s been a great discussion and I hope that the audience has been able to get something out of it. If anyone wants to reach out to either of you, where can you be reached?

00:44:59:13 – 00:45:07:02
George Arabian
Right here on this blue couch. Or contact this company right there. NVISION.co

00:45:07:16 – 00:45:08:04
Michael Cardoso
Awesome. Syl?

00:45:08:04 – 00:45:11:20
Sylvia Wong
Same here, NVISION.co. Find us on the site.

00:45:12:04 – 00:45:20:19
Michael Cardoso
Awesome. Thank you so much. If you’re interested in learning more, feel free to check out some of the other content on our channel or go to our website and I hope everybody has a great day. Take care.

00:45:20:22 – 00:45:21:12
George Arabian
See ya.