Podcast episode 14 | July 5 - 2023

00:00:00:00 – 00:00:20:10

Becky Lowry

We were like previously talking about like how easy it is to just make an Instagram profile or a Twitter profile and copy someone’s logo or copy someone’s profile picture or an idea copy all their description and their links or whatever. You know, it’s so easy to do that. Like you don’t really get questioned unless someone reports that account.

00:00:20:10 – 00:00:26:17

Becky Lowry

And so to now just be able to get that blue verification checkmark along with that is just like, I don’t know. 

00:00:26:17 – 00:00:28:20

Sylvia Wong 

It’s a whole new level of that MTV show Catfish 

00:00:28:20 – 00:00:30:17

Becky Lowry

Yeah, literally, major catfish.

00:00:30:17 – 00:00:32:15

Sylvia Wong

It’s like on top of catfish, you can get the blue checkmark

00:00:32:15 – 00:00:36:03

Becky Lowry

We’re verified catfishes. And we can do this every day like, it’s fine.

00:00:41:19 – 00:00:48:22

Sylvia Wong

Welcome to Brews and Buzz Words today I am joined by our Web and graphic designer, Becky.

00:00:49:00 – 00:01:13:04

Sylvia Wong

Today we’re talking about should you buy the blue checkmark? So, Becky, thank you so much for joining me today. I wanted to talk about this topic around blue checkmark and verifications because it’s such a hot topic right now. Our clients are asking like, should we purchase it? Because there are many available on a lot of social platforms on a subscription model?

00:01:13:04 – 00:01:21:02

Sylvia Wong

And I think it has everything to do with trust factors and trust signals in design. So to start with, have you heard about the Twitter debacle? Blue checkmarks.

00:01:21:02 – 00:01:29:10

Becky Lowry

Only like, recently. And I did not know it was a thing at all. But yeah, once I kind of delved into it, I was kind of mind blown with how much.

00:01:29:10 – 00:01:44:15

Becky Lowry

It’s just to me personally, taking a turn, because I’m one of those people that’s like, Oh, the blue checkmark. It’s so verified and it’s so trustworthy and now to see all this like Twitter fiasco around it has just like, blow my mind. 

00:01:44:15 – 00:01:52:13

Sylvia Wong

Yeah. So I think to start with like blue checkmark to us on social media, it’s always been this indicator of trust, right?

00:01:52:13 – 00:02:12:03  

Sylvia Wong

And like, you could have one if you were a big celebrity, if you were a really well-known global brand. And I think because it’s been around for, let’s say, like a couple of decades at this point, we’ve gotten familiar with just like seeing it in the back of our subconscious, thinking like, that means I should trust this person saying.

00:02:12:03 – 00:02:42:13

Sylvia Wong

So what’s happened on Twitter for anyone in the audience that is not aware of all of this discourse is on Twitter, you’re able to now purchase at $8 a month a subscription to get this blue checkmark, whether you are a recognized public figure or not. So I could have a blue checkmark. You can have a blue mark, you have zero followers, but still have that blue checkmark and all legitimacy of it is coming into question because you can use that checkmark for good or evil.

00:02:42:13 – 00:03:07:08

Becky Lowry

Yeah, and understandably, like I said, like it’s just so like engrossed in my brain that it’s trust and it’s celebrities and really big brands and people that, you know, are being impersonated, per se and have that like imposter imposter syndrome almost entering into their daily lives. So they need to have this verified blue checkmark and now anybody can have it.

00:03:07:08 – 00:03:21:00

Becky Lowry

And the extent that they had to go through to to get the blue checkmark, like all these background checks and questionnaires and everything and it took so much time. To now just being able to basically pay like a monthly subscription to just have it for fun. 

00:03:21:00 – 00:03:34:20

Sylvia Wong

That’s exactly it. So like back, back in the day, well, like a year ago, like if a client was like, am I able to get a blue checkmark, we would pretty much answer with like, okay, like, do you have articles about you?

00:03:34:20 – 00:03:53:01

Sylvia Wong

Are there people trying to impersonate you? Do you have that legitimacy? And what can we put in your application? Because all of those social channels would actually ask you to fill something out. You’d have to have a photo of your like driver’s license, your business incorporation and everything. And so it was a lot of jumping through hoops to get that.

00:03:53:01 – 00:04:31:15

Sylvia Wong

And that legitimacy was built through this whole application process. Now, in in the purchasing model that’s been introduced, there’s now like two parties of people who have blue checkmarks, the actual earned blue checkmarks, historically, and then you’re just purchased at right now and forget imposter syndrome there’s literally imposter’s. Like people just pretending to be others. So all of that created this huge like mix mismatch of like who has a blue checkmark and what is actually legitimate, which I think it starts to devalue it.

00:04:31:15 – 00:04:45:09

Sylvia Wong

And then the most recent twist in this whole debacle was that the legitimate people who had blue checkmarks that was taken away from them. So the only people that now have it are purchasers. To add to that confusion, so Twitter was the first to introduce the subscription model. It has now been introduced beta or trial or whatever on Meta, so you can have it on Instagram as well.

00:04:45:09 – 00:05:08:10

Sylvia Wong

So I don’t even know if you’re aware of that, that like now on Facebook and Instagram, you can also purchase that blue checkmark. So the legitimacy of it in that arena is also starting to go down, but I don’t think the broader public knows it yet. 

00:05:08:10 – 00:05:11:16

Becky Lowry

Yeah, no, like I said, this is all new to me as well.

00:05:11:16 – 00:05:34:16

Becky Lowry

Like and it’s just it’s just mind boggling because like again, you, you, just automatically associate it with a celebrity or anything like that and have this trust behind it. So the fact that like yourself and myself can now, you know, potentially go get it and just pay monthly for it. And like you said, it completely devalues the authenticity of it.

00:05:34:16 – 00:05:53:19

Becky Lowry

And again, like you said, the history of all these people that have like jumped through all of these hoops to try and get it and been authorized to have it and, you know, are legitimate. And now it just it doesn’t mean the same thing anymore. So it’s like how is a user or a customer ever meant to know how legitimate you are now

00:05:53:19 – 00:5:59:18

Becky Lowry 

If anybody down the street, can just kind of get it at any given time, like how are they going to know who to trust? 

00:05:59:18 – 00:06:15:10

Sylvia Wong

Right. So I think both in my realm, which is marketing, your realm, which is design, yeah, there’s this huge aspect of psychology. And I think psychologically we’ve put this association of trust signals and a built association.

00:06:15:10 – 00:06:40:16

Sylvia Wong

So no matter what it means now, the purchasing and everything, we have it deeply ingrained in our brains. Can you tell me more about trust signals that you would use in designing our client sites for them? Like in order to build something that’s like, trustworthy, in order to build that client trust instantly. So they will hand over their credit card, so they will fill out that form. What are you usually designing in there?

00:06:40:16 – 00:07:06:24

Becky Lowry

Yeah. So first few things that I would always like try and incorporate and get our clients to to utilize first and foremost on a home page, for example, of a web design is testimonials. They go a long way. Real testimonials, you know, and again, that again, it’s almost like the blue checkmark that it just verifies to you automatically in your head that this company, this business is trustworthy.

00:07:06:024 – 00:07:09:19

Sylvia Wong

Add the face to it. And that’s like even more powerful right.

00:07:09:19 – 00:07:41:18

Becky Lowry

Yeah, exactly. Video testimonials now of clients like real people talking, sharing their experience and it not being just you know potentially, yeah, words on a website so video testimonials go really, really far and I think just real people being in the know and being in action of their website as well, like putting their stuff on their website, putting the people that you deal with on the website, all these indications of that authenticity just really speaks volumes for the viewer and the customer.

00:07:41:018 – 00:07:52:17

Sylvia Wong

Yeah, we talk about that all the time, just like humanizing it, right? Because like people want to interact with other people and the trustworthiness of like the robots and the AI and the fake businesses is not really there. 

00:07:52:17 – 00:08:02:12

Becky Lowry

No, definitely. And it just it devalues a lot of things, I think, too. And it defers people, you know? You, you want to deal with real people and you want to know that you’re being taken care of.

00:08:02:12 – 00:08:27:10

Becky Lowry

And like you said, that the money you’re investing into something that could be a lot of money potentially down the line is going to be worth your while and that you’re you’re being taken care of. So you know, AI’s and chat bots and things like that come in helpful at random times of the day. Maybe for quick questions, but when you’re really investing a lot of money into something, I think people want that human element and that human to be looked after approach.

00:08:27:10 – 00:08:51:10

Sylvia Wong

Yeah, for sure. I think in terms of like other trust signals on a site like branching out from like blue checkmark and everything, I think seeing like all of those Interac, like MasterCard take in here, that’s like legitimacy in a business, right? Like I think, in person, like if you ever see, like we accept Amex, we accept whatever, you’re like, okay, like they’re using like a trusted payment processor. It’s similar for website, right?

00:08:51:10 – 00:09:15:20

Becky Lowry

Yeah, definitely. And like, I think just like you mentioned, seeing those familiar brands like MasterCard or PayPal, things like that, people more often than not will probably have at least one of the two of those. And two, again, just instant recognizable factor of trust of being able to see, oh, okay, I know if I put my payment method into this, like I trust that it’s going to go to where it’s supposed to go.

00:09:15:20 – 00:09:34:20

Becky Lowry

So obviously there there’s other situations where they can turn into not being so trustworthy, but like you just have to make sure you’re looking out for the right things in the right instances. But yeah, it’s that familiarity, it’s that knowledge of seeing something that you knowing you recognize and it instantly is a trust factor for you.

00:09:34:20 – 00:09:35:14

Sylvia Wong

Yeah, I agree.

00:09:35:14 – 00:9:43:09

Sylvia Wong

I think in terms of using those trust factors, they can be used for good or evil. 

00:09:43:09 – 00:10:31:22

Sylvia Wong

And like on the, on the evil side of things, it’s scams. Like I think digital literacy is so important and it’s obviously not something that we learned in school. Like it’s it’s so new and it’s so ever changing that. Like, I don’t, I don’t even know where, where you go to to get digital literacy right now on like how to keep up with all of these scams that are happening and we were previously like talking about okay like how do you explain to people with like a lower digital literacy how to spot what should be a trust signal like a, you know, trusted banking logo and see through that and see that it is a phishing scam, which is so tricky because it can be used against you.

00:10:31:22 – 00:10:39:17

Sylvia Wong

So in terms of, like, scams and like, how trust signals can be used against you, have you had any experiences?

00:10:39:17 – 00:11:04:01

Becky Lowry

Yes, I have. I was probably a teenager at the time. So again, the Internet and everything like this, it was all still kind of new and not as big as it is right now. And I was just trying to sell like a little digital camera on eBay. And someone messaged me and was interested and wanted to purchase it.

00:11:04:01 – 00:11:29:20

Becky Lowry

And then I don’t think I’ve ever even really used eBay before. So there’s that whole point of not really knowing how it should go, not knowing the process of it. And unfortunately, yeah, this person was a scammer and they were emailing me, but their email address that they had made was almost identical to eBay’s. So let’s just say it’s info at eBay.com.

00:11:29:20 – 00:11:53:13

Becky Lowry

I don’t know what it is, but for example that there’s was literally like info at eBay dot something, you know, and it was like the smallest thing that you just you just don’t pick up on because you open an email and you read it and they have the whole email templated out to be exactly like eBay. So the logo, the messages and how like you talk to people and stuff.

00:11:53:13 – 00:12:17:06

Becky Lowry

So I just thought, okay, it’s legit kind of thing. And again, because I didn’t really know, I packaged up the camera and I sent it to my local post office and they hadn’t transferred me the money. But then I got an email from PayPal, which was also them with another PayPal scam email address saying, Oh, the funds are on hold.

00:12:17:06 – 00:12:45:22

Becky Lowry

Once you release the dispatch receipt or tracking number, the funds will be in your account. So again, I’m like, okay, great. Il go drop this camera off at the post office, come home. Complete silence. No funds are being deposited. Nothing else is happening. So then I obviously start getting worried, concerned and then yeah, it just it just basically was really apparent then at that point that it was a scam.

00:12:45:22 – 00:13:01:17

Becky Lowry

And I remember me and my mom at the time were printing off all the emails that we got. And I don’t know if you’ve ever done this when you’ve printed off an email, but it literally pulls up all the information of email addresses and everything and it had like a BCC email in it.

00:13:01:17 – 00:13:03:21

Sylvia Wong

Oh, it like un-collapses it right?

00:13:03:21 – 00:13:12:19

Becky Lowry

Yes, exactly. And this person’s email was in that and so it came from them through this scam email to me so I could see this person’s email. 

00:13:12:19 – 00:13:28:07

Sylvia Wong

That’s one really tricky thing. And I have like, a very similar story. And we, it’s literally in our onboarding here, at NVISION now to be like, don’t ever listen if George asks you to go buy Costco gift cards.

00:13:28:07 – 00:13:31:23

Becky Lowry

Yeah, and it’s like emails, it’s like we have a $100 Costco gift card. 

00:13:31:23 – 00:13:52:01

Sylvia Wong

Exactly. And the way that the scam functions is like, I think, you know, I don’t know these the phishing scam is just like they know who the CEO of a company is or the bosses, and they’ll use this sense of urgency. So they will either grab, you know, George’s full name and like it’s collapsed in most like email browsers to just say their name and not the full email listed out.

00:13:52:01 – 00:14:09:06

Sylvia Wong

So it’ll simply say like coming from George Arabian. Right. And like it doesn’t say like what the actual email is, which we would all happen to know. But the urgency that’s placed in those is like, Hey, I need you to not tell anybody. Go grab me some Costco gift cards quickly. I’ll pay you back. Like let me know when you get them.

00:14:09:06 – 00:14:17:11

Sylvia Wong

And for the most part, like if you get you get anything from your CEO, most people will, like, drop all tasks and get going. 

00:14:17:11 – 00:14:22:06

Becky Lowry

Yeah. Because and just want to be helpful. So you’re like, okay, of course, I’m seeing them tomorrow at the office, no problem. 

00:14:22:06 – 00:14:39:09

Sylvia Wong

And the vulnerability there is just in like the urgency, the hitting you at moment of like the power dynamic that’s there and everything. And I think like, you know, more than once we’ve had stuff like that dropped everything and started going until they were like, Hey, George, just want to confirm like what the amounts are. And he’s like, stop what you’re doing.

00:14:39:09 – 00:14:48:07

Becky Lowry

What are you talking about don’t do it. And it’s like an office joke now because it’s literally got so many of us and like you said, some people have gone out of their way to go out and get them.

00:14:48:07 – 00:14:53:19

Becky Lowry

So now we’re just like, don’t ever listen to Costco gift card emails from George. It’s not a thing. 

00:14:53:19 – 00:15:09:12

Sylvia Wong

And us being so digital, it’s that much of a joke because we’re like, we are digitally literate. Like we are going to like the top conferences in the country. We are constantly getting like additional education on all of the tools that we use and like we’re getting scammed by these things too.

00:15:09:12 – 00:15:15:09

Sylvia Wong

And it’s just like the deeply embedded trust that we have for what something’s being represented as online, right?

00:15:15:09 – 00:15:29:02

Becky Lowry

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think it’s just it’s really hard. And like, you know, if, if you were to say if anyone was to say, what do you look out for? There’s so many things. There’s so many things. Like you literally have to just check and double check.

00:15:29:02 – 00:15:48:20

Becky Lowry

And like even my grandmother, like she’s just reluctant to answer the phone to anyone because of scams. And it could be a legitimate call from her bank. And she’s like, nope, don’t trust it. So she is luckily on that side where she just doesn’t want to deal with anything like that. But unfortunately there are a lot of people that that, that simple email.

00:15:48:20 – 00:16:07:05

Becky Lowry

Yeah, it just it gets them and like you just the urgency and the panic of doing it it’s you know, it’s simply like I got to go get that done and I’ll do it now. And you don’t questioning, you don’t have time to question it. So I’d say it’s like an instance of just like slow down, read things thoroughly.

00:16:07:05 – 00:16:12:23

Becky Lowry

Does it make sense? You know, and just Yeah, ask, ask questions otherwise, you know.

00:16:12:23 – 00:16:27:20

Sylvia Wong

Totally agree. And I think like as we talk about scams on like this larger scale scale where it actually affects like, you know, you’re paying money or shipping something out to someone like actually, you know, getting phished and getting your identity stolen. Like, those are like the big time scams.

00:16:27:20 – 00:17:03:17

Sylvia Wong

But on a smaller scale, like going back to the blue checkmark, spreading of misinformation is like rampant. Just because that blue checkmark gives you that little extra layer of trust where people are like, what they’re saying is more important. What they’re saying is probably true, and it will be taken as fact because we just assume blue checkmark means you’ve earned that legitimacy and that what you’re saying is probably news where, I don’t know, like news and like these tidbits of information are so easily spread online now, and that layer of legitimacy is like adds to the confusion for sure.

00:17:03:17 – 00:17:25:04

Becky Lowry

Yeah, definitely. And like, we were like previously talking about like how easy it is to just make an Instagram profile or a Twitter profile and copy someone’s logo or copy someone’s profile picture or copy all their description and their links or whatever. You know, it’s so easy to do that. Like you don’t really get questioned unless someone reports that account.

00:17:25:04 – 00:17:31:24

Becky Lowry

And so to now just be able to get that blue verification checkmark along with that is just like, I don’t know. 

00:17:31:24 – 00:17:34:12

Sylvia Wong

It’s a whole new level of that MTV show Catfish 

 00:17:34:12 – 00:17:36:08

Becky Lowry

Yeah, literally major catfish. 

00:17:36:08 – 00:17:38:17

Sylvia Wong

And it’s like on top of catfish, you can get the blue checkmark

00:17:38:17 – 00:17:41:23

Becky Lowry

We’re verified catfish and we can do this every day like, it’s fine.

00:17:41:23 – 00:17:49:17

Becky Lowry

I think it’s going to cause a lot of issues. I think personally on social media and a lot more, you know, scams or situations are going to happen, unfortunately, because of that.

00:17:49:17 – 00:18:00:15

Sylvia Wong

Yeah, online identities, that’s like a whole other episode that we’re going to have to talk about because that’s like, yeah, like all the profiles that you create and the permanence or impermanence of them whole other conversation.

00:18:00:15 – 00:18:09:12

Sylvia Wong

So all of that said, my question to you is would you recommend that anyone buys a blue checkmark right now? 

00:18:09:12 – 00:18:43:08

Becky Lowry

Oh God, I’m so torn in one sense. I guess like if, if you are just finding out now with those, you know, you can buy this blue checkmark and anybody could use it personally, I wouldn’t because I think it’s, it’s going to drastically yet devalued, you know and I think there’s a lot of other things and a lot of other recommendations that ourselves as a company, other companies around the world can recommend to you to build that trust and build that respect with clients.

00:18:43:08 – 00:18:56:15

Becky Lowry

That isn’t necessarily to do with the blue checkmark, but if it’s something that you really want and you’ve been wanting for a while and you know, Instagram’s not quite given it to you or whatever, then go ahead. It’s nice to do so.

00:18:56:15 – 00:19:03:02

Sylvia Wong

Yeah, you can do it at the low, low price of $8 a month. Um, I think my opinion on it is

00:19:03:02 – 00:19:07:23

Sylvia Wong

I think it’s it’s reached the point of cringey, but only for people that know.

00:19:07:23 – 00:19:08:21

Becky Lowry

Yes. Exactly.

00:19:08:21 – 00:19:29:20

Sylvia Wong

And so it’s like the the circle of people that understand this entire dynamic of how you know it can be purchased people who actually legitimately earned it on Twitter do not have it anymore. It’s selectively been given out. I think it’s reached the point of cringey, but I don’t think the greater public has that perspective yet.

00:19:29:20 – 00:19:45:10

Sylvia Wong

Because it’s an $8 a month fee. I would say at this point it’s a trial and error time. I wouldn’t talk people out of it because of the small investment that it is. But I don’t know, $8. Skip a couple of coffees and maybe you can be verified for a month. 

00:19:45:10 – 00:19:47:14

Becky Lowry

Yeah, I guess time will tell how that goes.

00:19:47:14 – 00:19:57:12

Sylvia Wong

Time will tell and maybe, you know, in a year’s time we’re going to look back and say like, whoever thought that like a blue checkmark was trustworthy and it could mean very little in our minds by that point. 

00:19:57:12 – 00:20:00:03

Becky Lowry

Yeah, exactly. Be interesting to see. 

00:20:00:03 – 00:20:10:02

Sylvia Wong

We’ll wait and see. Thank you so much for joining me Becky for this conversation. It was so good talking to you and learning more about how branding can build trust.

00:20:10:02 – 00:20:17:11

Sylvia Wong

Please stay tuned. Check out all of our other episodes of Brews and Buzzwords. And we’ll be back next month with another!